Wednesday, February 13, 2008

More Scared = More Safe?

It is an odd formula, but I guess that it's worked so well in the past that they keep going back to the same well.

This morning Der Monkey Fuehrer was issuing one of his most dire warnings ever (cue scary music): The goal of terrorists using telephones is to "bring destruction to our shores that will make September 11 pale by comparison". Jesus, he all but invoked that "smoking gun-mushroom cloud" meme again.

Coincidentally, almost at the same time he was trying to scare the shit out of us, a story came out of New York about the NYPD setting up a fake company that bought 300 pounds of liquid chlorine and had it delivered to an address in Brooklyn, without hassle, and even without much human intervention.

Now maybe it's just me, but you'd think that an administration that was hell-bent on protecting us from terrorists would have, by now, over six years after 9-11, have thought this through and put some kind of limits on who, how and where anyone could buy that much chlorine.

Chlorine gas, just in case you didn't know, is a deadly poison that was used by insurgents in Iraq as far back as February 2007 to kill not only other Iraqis but also American troops.

More scared does not equal more safe. That's just the way THEY want you to see it.

[HT to Rachel Maddow for this piece of news -- if it hadn't been for her mentioning it on her show today, I wouldn't have seen it, since a Google News search for "NYPD chlorine" returns exactly two -- and only two -- Associated Press stories...]

22 Comments:

pepsiholic said...

Uh Farns, there's a BIG difference between liquid bleach (the stuff you put in your washing machine) and gaseous chlorine. Liquid chlorine is used to kill bacteria and microbes in water. We have about 5,000 gallons on site at our nuclear plant. Also, I found this Oboma picture for you to use. http://www.powerlineblog.com/che%2Bobama.jpg Notice the Cuban flag and who is on it?

pepsiholic said...

"With the current legislation set to expire on Friday, Bush had pushed for the House of Representatives to follow the Senate's example and pass a new text this week authorizing the tapping of foreign telephone calls and emails."

Why don't demorats want us wiretapping foreign telephone calls???

pepsiholic said...

Looking into the story more closely, it looks like the MSM doesn't know what they are talking about when they talk about the liquid chlorine... yes, gaseous chlorine is dangerous when exposed to air... but again, even gaseous chlorine has lots of uses. Chlorine's principal applications are in the production of a wide range of industrial and consumer products. For example, it is used in making plastics, solvents for dry cleaning and metal degreasing, textiles, agrochemicals and pharmaceuticals, insecticides, dyestuffs, etc.

Chlorine is an important chemical for water purification, in disinfectants, and in bleach. It is used (in the form of hypochlorous acid) to kill bacteria and other microbes in drinking water supplies and public swimming pools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine

Farnsworth68 said...

So, by your reasoning, any product that has a non-weapons use should be available to be freely purchased in a large quantity, without hindrance or questioning, by anyone with a post office box. That's free enterprise, but you don't mind at all that the government has been spying on your emails and calls without a search warrant and without using the legal procedures set up to administer it (the FISA Court), within the United States (and that's the real issue is with the wiretapping, and you fucking know it.)
And are you trying to say that that 300 pounds of liquid chlorine was as inconsequential as, say, 300 pounds of feathers? That it has to be "gasified" in order to be an effective weapon?
Maybe you ought to offer your expertise to those terrorists in Iraq who are using it against our troops. I'll bet they don't know that, and are wasting both chlorine and explosives making those nifty little bombs that somehow, in spite of everything militating against them, are still managing to kill people with them.
Maybe you could telephone the New York Police Department and tell them that their little entrapment scam will do nothing to make their city more safe, and that being able to obtain and possess chlorine falls under the second amendment right to keep and bear arms.
Maybe you could call the mayor of New York and tell him to stop squandering scarce tax dollars on trying to keep track of who is buying large quantities of otherwise-harmless chemicals; no terrorist would do that because it doesn't work.
And if it is so fucking harmless in its liquid state (like a bottle of bleach? Please, Mr Wizard), maybe you could explain that to my friend from high school, whose older brother died along with two others as the result of an industrial explosion that also blew up a tank of liquid chlorine, and while you're at it, why don't you tell it to the county medical examiner, who found the cause of death for all three of them was not the explosion but the inhalation of chlorine gas that filled the air and passed downwind to where they had taken cover.
You know, this is really sad, that you have to come up with this shoot-from-the-hip nonsense right after I complemented you on your apparent intelligence.
It really is.
Why do you hate America so much?

pepsiholic said...

Farns ol bud, you have to look at the degree of risk. I never said that chlorine wasn't dangerous. I just said that it is used all over. But where do you stop controlling dangerous materials? Do we question the sales of gasoline or propane to prevent the formation of Thermobaric weapons ? Or... how about chlorine bleach? If I add acid to it I get chlorine gas! Salt??? You know if you add water to the salt and insert an electrode and plug it into your outlet, you can make as much chlorine gas as you want!

Should there be questions about purchasing chlorine gas??? Sure, the sellers of fertilizers do it already.

Jeez Farns, with all your fearmongering about chlorine gas, you're starting to sound like Bush ;)

pepsiholic said...

Oh... and about that wiretapping. I think the government is only listening to my phone calls if a terrorist overseas is calling me. I'm not worried (since I don't talk to terrorists)but why are you so paranoid Farns??? Feeling guilty about your phone calls?

pepsiholic said...

Lets see... three trucks filled with chlorine gas, two people killed. Chlorine gas would be effective in enclosed spaces where people couldn't get out but out in the open air, it's just an irritant.

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Bombers detonated three chlorine-filled trucks in Anbar province, the U.S. military said Saturday.

The attacks killed two police officers and sickened about 350 Iraqis and six coalition force members, the military said.

The bombs went off within three hours Friday afternoon and evening in three different locations: a checkpoint north of Ramadi, Anbar's capital; Amiriya, about 10 miles (16 kilometers) south of Falluja; and the Albu Issa region just south of Falluja. (Watch why chlorine is easy to get in Iraq Video)

About 250 Iraqis were sickened by chlorine in Albu Issa and 100 in Amiriya. A coalition service member and an Iraqi were injured at the checkpoint near Ramadi, and two police officers were killed in Amiriya.

The bomber who struck near Ramadi used a pickup truck, and the other two bombers were in dump trucks. The Amiriya bomber fled before the explosion; the other two were suicides. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/17/iraq.main/index.html

pepsiholic said...

Oh Farns, one other thing before I head into work...

Who are the people who listen into the phone calls? Wouldn't that be career civil servents??? You know, you were in the government... those types are mostly nerdy liberals/democrats... Anyway... don't you think one of those Bush haters would have come forward if we were just listening to you call your grandkids?

Farnsworth68 said...

Why do you hate America so much?

pepsiholic said...

"Why do you hate America so much?"

Why do you insist on calling me a liberal?

pepsiholic said...

You know Farns, if you sent me your articles before you posted them, I could do some basic fact checking so you wouldn't look so silly all the time.

I know you liberals have problems with facts,logic and the truth. I would be more than willing to help you out. It only takes me a few seconds to google things.

Farnsworth68 said...

No, really. Why do you hate America so much?

pepsiholic said...

No seriously, do I sound like an America hating Che/commie loving liberal?

pepsiholic said...

"Now maybe it's just me, but you'd think that an administration that was hell-bent on protecting us from terrorists would have, by now, over six years after 9-11, have thought this through and put some kind of limits on who, how and where anyone could buy that much chlorine."

Farns... each 4' tall gas cylinder contains 150 lbs of chlorine gas. So we are only talking about two small gas cylinders... That isn't that large of an amount. Like I said before... just about anything can be turned into a weapon. Even freon gas can be easily turned in phosgene gas by burning it.

Farnsworth68 said...

Why do you hate America so much? I really want to know.

Farnsworth68 said...

Anyone who doesn't want to do everything we can to protect the United States must hate this country. Anyone who refuses to support law enforcement in their efforts to make us safe must hate this country.
Why do you hate America so much?

pepsiholic said...

Farns... demorats and liberals are the party of the unhappy people didn't you know??? Us republicans are the happy people. If you are a pissed of veteran, you are more likely to hate than a happy republican.

Don't be a hater Farns!!!

A 2006 Pew Research poll found that 45 percent of Republicans describe themselves as "very happy," compared with only 30 percent of Democrats (and 29 percent of independents). This is a sizable gap and a remarkably consistent one, too. Republicans have been happier than Democrats every year since the General Social Survey, conducted biannually by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago, began asking about happiness in 1972. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/07/AR2008020701904_2.html

Farnsworth68 said...

Anyone that keeps his head in the sand and refuses to help protect this nation from terror must really hate this country.
Anyone who believes that this is a nation ruled by men and not by the constitution must really hate this country.
Why do you hate America so much?

drainbamage said...

I would think from the title of the operation: "green cloud", they were implying of mixing it with Ammonia? to create some deadly gas?

As for the most toxic chemical used in our homes, it is not great because we use it. It causes a large variety of people many different allergic reactions. When you get it on your hands and rub your fingers together it feels slick, that is your skin roting off.



On another note... I think I have reached my limit.
I am so sick and tired of the arrogant mother fucker that says, "well we have to stay in Iraq to give them a chance". "If we leave who knows what will happen?"

I know what will happen. Americans will stop getting maimed and killed.

If you are not over there serving, then you are the most arrogant mother fucker and how the fuck dare you to say it is ok if someone else dies just in case leaving might make Iraq worse. You think your intellectual curiosity and opinion are worth something?

Why don't those arrogant assholes go die for that "what if?" thought they have, fucking worthless pieces of shit!

Farnsworth68 said...

Yeah, I guess he's just parroting the talking points. Following his Screaming Monkey Fuehrer: "Stop throwing the constitution in my face. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
If his Fearless Leader says it's so, then it's not his place to question -- it's his place to just follow orders.
Anyone who supports subverting our constitution must hate this country.
PH, why do you hate America so much?

pepsiholic said...

Drainbamaged,

"I would think from the title of the operation: "green cloud", they were implying of mixing it with Ammonia? to create some deadly gas?"

We use ammonia to detect gaseous chlorine. You have a plastic bottle of ammonium hydroxide and you squeeze the bottle to give of ammonia vapors. If there is any chlorine gas in the air, it forms ammonium chloride, a white precipitate. This comes in real handy when you are trying to find the leaks in the gaseous chlorine system. The green gas... comes from chlorine gas reacting with water vapor in the air.

Chlorine gas is deadly by itself... when in confined spaces, out in the open air, it's more of an irritant.


And Drainbamaged. You sure are an ignorant fuck. It's not like you really care about the soldiers. All you care about is bashing Bush. It's like you liberals are totally impotent with rage because us republicans are in charge and it's driving you up a wall. You can't understand how someone you see as being morally and intellectually superior can lose to a bunch of neo-cons morons. Well guess what dumb fuck, you aren't as smart as you think you are. You may be a legend but, it's only in your own mind.

And as far as dying in Iraq... there are more people killed in the state of Ohio due to car crashes every year than are killed in Iraq. Hell, even during the Clinton years about a thousand soldiers a year died.http://www.bizzyblog.com/wp-images/Death_Rates1.jpg Are you saying we should get rid of the military too?

You are such a loser!

Farnsworth68 said...

I'll let DB speak for himself, but do you really think that this diatribe is going to contribute to a rational discourse?
Idiot. Moron. Asshole.
I can do that because I'm a liberal. You know how immoral and corrupt WE are. I thought you Rethug followers of Jesus were supposed to be meek, love your neighbor, turn the other cheek, all that shit.
Oh that's right, you're an atheist. Or so you claim. Fine, as long as you know that the Fundo Xians see you as big of an enemy to them as me, and as soon as the theocrats take over, you (along with me and everyone else who is "different") will be among the first to go to those "detention camps" for "reeducation"...
Why do you hate America so much? Why do you hate yourself so much, that you would support the kind of theocracy that will come after you among the very first to be swept away?
If you weren't such a Koolaid-drinking moron, I'd feel sorry for you.